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how to tell if you have hardwood floors under carpet

 
 

The DeGraaf Interiors Cascade location is the first Shaw Design Center in West Michigan. The best place to check and see would be to pull up the carpet in well hidden closet somewhere if possible. If you've decided on keeping the existing carpet in some areas where it meets up with the wood floor, here are some pointers for you. Even after the flooring is installed or maintained, moving a piece of furniture without padding will scratch the surface. Discovering a Diamond in the Rough | How to Know if You Have Wood Floors. To add visual interest to your floor, engineered hardwood comes in a variety of surface effects such as hand scraped for a time worn appearance, distressed for a slightly rustic appearance, or wire-brushed. That’s what typically takes the hardest hit. You might think you have hardwood beneath your carpet, but you need to be sure of it. To check for the current thickness, one place to look would be around removable heating register vents. Your home can echo like crazy. So that you know, stiff bristles can scratch the wood's surface. Here’s the easiest way to know if you have wood floors: If the room has a floor vent, remove it {they’re rarely screwed in} & carefully push your fingers under the pad to lift & reveal. Julie, Hardwood evokes feelings of solidity, quality and warmth. The first thing is to ensure that the hardwood floor under the carpet is well protected. Consider the following: Average carpet cost per square foot (material and install) – $3 to $5; Average hardwood cost per square foot (material and install) – $9 to $14; There is a huge caveat to this comparison — long-term cost of maintenance and replacement. Maple is thin and light. Wood floors are expensive – whether or not a house has them factors into the offer I’m willing to make, because for me, they’re so much easier to maintain on the main level of a home & add a lot of character. Determine the type of surface finish used on the hardwood floor. Whether you do it yourself or bring on a mold remediation specialist, the only way to get one of the firmest of signs of mold under hardwood floors is to look under the floorboards. I just discovered that we have hardwood floors under our carpet. If you are trying to seek suggestions for 12 attractive How to Install Hardwood Floors Next to Carpet This is the location to be. Jamie Lupresto of Diamond Flooring of Elizabethtown, Ky., says there's an excellent chance you'll be able to accommodate your client. Never tear up or disrupt old flooring unless you know it's safe. Knowing the proper way to tuck carpet against new hardwood floors can make the difference from not only appearance but avoiding a trip hazard. And how to put your carpet back down if you don't. This way, they are choosing their own style, color and price range. The answer usually comes down to preference, not do-ability. What Kind of Pest Makes Tiny Holes in a Wooden Floor? Amazon link to Great products that every DIYer and Handyman should know about. I’m hoping there’s hardwood underneath, but my parents had a 1974 home and they found nothing but subfloor under theirs Do things like location, year built, style of home influence what the flooring choice was? Usually the same hardwood on the main level was in the upper level. Hardwood flooring is durable and available in engineered and solid options, as well as a variety of colors. I’ve redone several hardwood floors, including one time removing carpet and redoing the beautiful wood floors underneath. The Tudor is our 4th home. Typically designed similar to a stick vacuum, hardwood floor cleaners are equipped with a soft scrubbing pad and a wood-approved cleaning solution. When it comes time to wet-clean your floor (every four to six weeks depending on foot traffic) work on small areas at a time and use only a damp cloth or mop. To determine what kind of floor lies beneath your feet, you'll need to do a little detective work. You don’t want to have two of the same lengths beside each other. For different dimension of floors in various locations there are different concepts that I could share to you. Ours is 69…you can peel away just a tiny bit. If you have carpet on top of your hardwood floor, remove the carpet and padding right away. Knowing the proper way to tuck carpet against new hardwood floors can make the difference from not only appearance but avoiding a trip hazard. That would definitely make your day! Thank you! You certainly can’t tear apart every house your realtor takes you to. These hardwoods were hiding under carpet for nearly 50 years. If not, then it has been treated with polyurethane. Peek inside the opening to look at the type of wood that lies in the gap. Looking closer (click on the photo to enlarge it), you’ll see that the tile is large (about 1 foot by 2 feet) and made of marble; both features require a stiffer floor than most homes have. JulieBlanner.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com. Chances are, the carpet will probably get stuck at places on the flooring. Hi Julie, I know there are a lot of ‘timbers’ out there- how can I learn what kind of timber flooring we have and if it’s real hardwood? I’m a big fan of hardwood flooring. A friend of ours suggested that if there’s a problem with the wood, we can use laminate flooring . We’ve learned a lot of simple tricks along the way, & I want to share even the most basic with you…just in case! Look for water marks, stains and faded areas on the floorboards. This designation allows us to offer you a renowned Shaw Star Assurance warranty program, a broad collection of Shaw flooring products including carpeting, laminate, and hardwood flooring, and a full team of associates ready to offer specialized expertise to your project. Old hardwood floors usually have a wax finish while more recent hardwood floors have a polyurethane finish. Hardwood floors are commonly 3/4-inch thick, tongue-and-groove boards. Wood floors aren't terrible about letting heat escape, but even if you're utility bills haven't skyrocketed, you can be put off by the fact that your floor is too cold during the winter. We just have one room of parquet…but surprises are sure nice! Hardwood is more expensive and requires a lot of maintenance, but it looks incredible since it’s solid wood. You might think you have hardwood beneath your carpet, but you need to be sure of it. You can also try pulling up one of your floor vents. You can classify noises into two categories: airborne or impact. Home » Home » Discovering a Diamond in the Rough | How to Know if You Have Wood Floors. Wider boards with long grain strokes may be hemlock, a common softwood material for older homes. Unfortunately, only laminate was hidden below. Gently pry up the trim so you can pull up a few hardwood floorboards. In order to make this certain, remove the rug from its spot. 1970 s 80s these are the dark ages of hardwood flooring. If the room is carpeted, tear the carpeting and padding away from tack boards. I used a brad nailer to attach each board. Consult your local building department to determine regulations on asbestos removal. Shine the flashlight between the basement ceiling joists and inspect the grain of the wood and width of the floor boards. How Do You Remove Carpet Pad Residue? The weight of the machine can make indentations in your carpet or wood floor, and can actually tear vinyl flooring. Next, use a vacuum to remove hard to reach dirt in room corners and between floorboards. The simple answer is that carpet is much cheaper to install per square foot than hardwood floors. You may need to have the hardwood floor refinished , I'm sure your carpet has a tack strip around the perimeter so it will definitely need touch ups at the least, however, a properly finished hardwood floor is beautiful and well worth the time, expense and effort. level 2 … Never cut into or sand floors that may contain lead paint, which is toxic and known to cause nerve damage. Again, tuck your fingers underneath to see if the wood continues or not before removing the carpet. Installing Carpet Against Wood Floors. To determine your best action plan, you must know the type of finish that is on your hardwood floor. Do you have hardwood floors under your carpet? Read about our wood stair makeover here. Replacing carpet with hardwood can be a great choice, as it is easy to clean and maintain. To get rid of these stomach-churning particles, you’ll need to vacuum. Have you ever wondered how hard it is to restore hardwood floors that have been hidden under carpet for years? Lift up part of the carpeting or linoleum in an inconspicuous corner to inspect the wood. Hardwood floors are easier to clean and maintain. Carpet, Padding, Strips, Staples, Nails, Glue. I somehow missed this, I’m so sorry! Dust your rug before you get into the details and make sure you don’t have any dirt piles that can be removed easily with the help of a carpet brush. Many of the links on this blog are affiliate links. We love hardwood flooring in the bedroom, but you cannot choose to differ when I say, the bare floor looks slightly incomplete without a runner or maybe an area rug in the center of the bedroom. Also, if liquid is spilled on a rug and seeps onto your hardwood floor, this also can cause discoloration. Make sure you find all of the areas so you can address the issue fully. Even if there are some holes and stains, I would sand and stain versus replacing. That said, hardwood is forever (if cared for properly) and laminate may need to be replaced in 25 to 30 years. The basic rule of thumb with removing the carpet for a hardwood installation is that you just go in reverse to take things back to the original subfloor. You also want to get an idea of what condition it's in to see if it's even salvageable. If it doesn’t have a floor vent, go to the basement & look up. You may have some luck cleaning the urine in a plywood subfloor material, but the stained portion often needs to be replaced. In our last house, even the kitchen & bath were covered in white carpeting. You may need to roll it up if the rug is of big size. When we moved into our 1960s-era house, I was glad to know that hardwood floors were hiding under the carpet. Carpet everywhere. You should be able to get a good glimpse by untucking it from a floor board in the corner of the room or closet. If there is a white spot on the floor when the water dries, then the floor has been treated with wax. One key in determining how many times the floor has been refinished would be to look at the wear layer that is left on the flooring itself. Hardwood floors are commonly 4 inches wide, while softwood flooring is generally 5 inches wide or wider. You also want to get an idea of what condition it's in to see if it's even salvageable. Oak flooring, a common material, has a thick, heavy grain. ©2020 Julie Blanner, All Rights Reserved. "Ninety-five percent of the time, if not more, you can refinish a hardwood floor, replace boards, make repairs and have a very nice floor." Between ceiling joists, you may be able to catch a glimpse. This seems like a lot of work and effort. Consult your state health department or local building department for information on lead paint and how to hire a company to remove it. Hardwood floors are known for their beauty and durability, increasing the overall value of a home by as much as 6 to 11 percent, according to some surveys. For large jobs you can use 1 2 cup of vinegar per gallon of water. If you don’t find the hardwoods you were hoping for, use a butter knife to tuck the carpet back under. How to Get Fleas Off Your Carpet and Bare Hardwood Floors. Each type … If you saw our post last week, “Best Tips Choosing Hardwood Flooring” you know that we have partnered with Shaw Floors and are installing their Epic Plus engineered hardwood flooring in our family room. What Is the R-Value of a Wooden Entry Door? Boards with a tight grain, such as maple, appear thin and mellow. When looking at older homes, you’ll often find A LOT of carpet. Especially if you had bad '80s carpet beforehand. Both types of flooring have their pros and cons. Rebecca Mecomber, a former radio broadcaster, has been a professional blogger and writer since 2006. You have hardwood flooring! If you didn’t find any, you may like reading about the hardwood floors we had custom made for the Colonial! When it's done … 3- Check under the hardwood floorboards. Let me know if you need any help! Hard to tell with the picture but from what I can see, all signs point to yes. Fleas resist eviction, infiltrating your home until the task of eliminating them seems impossible. How to Fix Old Hardwood Floors With Gaps and Cupping. But it seems like hardwood floors are an expected feature, so they're not valued as much as they used to be. Then wipe the floor with plain water and leave the floor to dry. A liquid is an enemy of hardwood floors. If you have not yet positioned your treadmill, you may not know about the extensive damage it can do to your floor without the protection of a mat. Hardwood Floor Repair: How To Know If You Have Hardwood Under Your Carpet: This is a very easy trick to see what is under your carpet. Laminate flooring, a relatively new type of material, is very thin and made up of a dense fiberboard material. Whether your style ranges from classic to contemporary, you can find a hardwood floor that best suits your home. You are here: The wear layer is the area above the tongue and groove. To remove the carpet pad residue from the hardwood floor surface follow the below-given steps: Prepare Cleaning Mixture: The users need to prepare a cleaning solution by combining the warm water, natural cleaner, and essential oil. How to Refinish Rosewood Furniture With Sanding, University of California: Determinants of Real Estate Values. If you've decided on keeping the existing carpet in some areas where it meets up with the wood floor, here are some pointers for you. Contrast that to buying new carpet…where you need to purchase the materials + take care of the labor. Furniture Pads . Depending on what type of floor you have the need might vary. Original hardwood floors under carpet. So you have decided to restore the original hardwood floors that have been in hibernation under your carpet. But the carpet was new and our kids are still toddlers so it makes sense to just keep the carpet. But let me back up and tell you about a basement suite I rented after university. However, not everybody would love to take the additional hassle of cost. I think when it comes to refinishing our own floors, we’ll want to hire an experienced professional. Tip: If you’re working with large-format tile or natural stone, specify that your rooms meet a stronger deflection rating: L/720, instead of the base-standard L/360. Laminate flooring is synthetic, making it more affordable, and it’s also more durable than hardwood. Remove a floor heating vent with the screwdriver. When you have furniture on your flooring, it only takes one push of a chair or movement of a couch to scratch the surface of the hardwood flooring. If you live in a home that is built prior to 1970’s there is almost certainly hardwood underneath that dingy carpet. Installing Hardwood Floors With a few careful preparations, elbow grease and a weekend, you can have beautiful new floors. If you already have hardwood flooring in some areas of your home and are looking to add more, trying to match the two surfaces is next to impossible. Your email address will not be published. Also, if they soak in the water, they can rust and turn black as well as turn the wood underneath black, too. For a quick check and five easy questions that can help tell you if an unknown floor covering contains asbestos, try . To discover the type of finish on the floor, place a drop of water on the floor and wait for it to dry. To dry beneath wood floors which have been flooded, first you should remove any wet floor coverings such as rugs or carpet. Staggered is more natural if you want it to look like a true hardwood floor. This is an area where the carpet isn’t tacked down, so it’s easily accessible. When we bought our house 16yrs ago, I knew we have hardwood floors in our living room and bedrooms. I like how you pointed out that you’ll have to rent a drum sander and get 3 different types of sandpaper. The basic rule of thumb with removing the carpet for a hardwood installation is that you just go in reverse to take things back to the original subfloor. If you found gorgeous planks of hardwood under old flooring during a remodel or renovation, this can add value to your home and more. Airborne noises, which are also sometimes called ambient noises, are sounds transmitted through the air before they pass through walls, ceilings, or floors. Congratulations!! If you need any tips, give me a shout and I will break down the process for you. Start in the corners, pulling the carpet off of the tack strips that are located along the edges. Have you ever wished you had hardwood floors throughout your home, but know that a new hardwood floor installation is out of your budget? Refinishing hardwood is often less expensive than most people think and also, you are working with an asset you already have – hardwood floors. Go into the basement and look up. Well, don’t give up hope yet. Wood floor insulation is a great way to reduce your heating bills, give you a comfortable floor, and protect your wood flooring from the infiltration of moisture. Her articles and interviews have appeared in "The Wall Street Journal," Salon.com and several other publications, covering topics such as Federal Trade Commission policy and media regulations, blogging, home improvement and New York travel. Or we invite you to wade through the more-detailed discussion below. Use fans to circulate the air in your home, and have patience as your floors … If you want scratches and marks on your beautiful hardwood floors, don't use furniture pads. There's no clear cut answer, but there are certainly pros and cons to each. If you have big nail holes in your hardwoods, you might need to fill them in with some wood putty, but in our case the Rejuvenate filled in the tiny staple holes just fine. Some people just LOVE carpet. Sometimes you’ll need your pry bar to pull the carpet off of the nails that hold it down. We develop the flooring and now, we are loving the floor of our house. In addition, hardwood floors are better for allergy sufferers. If you have outdated, stained or musty carpeting, it may be time for a new look. What may look like full wood stairs with a runner, may just be beautiful wood on the edges. Best case is you have some nice exotic … Pull the carpet up slowly, not making any sudden moves. Wood Floor — Wood floors are hard, the unique woodgrain will show in each plank, and wood floors are normally going to appear some shade of tan or brown — based on the type of wood and stain used. Use fans to circulate the air in your home, and have patience as your floors … This is an area where the carpet isn’t tacked down, so it’s easily accessible. Furniture needs to be lifted rather than dragged on a hardwood floor because it will leave marks behind. Even if you are able to find the exact material from the same manufacturer, your existing floor will show signs of age. Luckily, hardwood floors don’t hold on to these particles. Laying a solid-hardwood strip floor is easier and faster if you choose a prefinished product to avoid the extra work of sanding, staining and finishing. Here’s the easiest way to know if you have wood floors: If the room has a floor vent, remove it {they’re rarely screwed in} & carefully push your fingers under the pad to lift & reveal. I am here to tell you that the hardest part in my opinion, when installing hardwood, is the prep work. My husband bought a house last year with carpet on the floor. For example, if you leave a rug lying on your hardwood floors for too long, it can cause discoloration. If you are installing a new hardwood floor with an underfloor heating system, there are a couple of key things to think about to guarantee a successful first-time installation. We weren’t so lucky in our new home, just finding poorly installed parquet in the office, however, I’m happy that we at least have a room with hardwood for now! We are considering a 1974 home. Skipping this step can cause problems when applying new carpet adhesive, refinishing your hardwood or laying a new flooring choice such as tile or linoleum. They’re not for everyone. It may , or may not be cooler in winter so you may need an area rug, it it's on an upper floor it's likely just fine. It can also be a pain if you aren’t sure what types of old hardwood floors, or softwood, you are dealing with. Treadmills are typically heavy. We recently bought a new home and are trying to make sure it’s safe and of good quality. Sand a small part of the wood to inspect the hardiness of the board and the grain of the wood. The floors in your new home might look like hardwood, but that doesn't mean they actually are. And, then, be sure to remove tack strips as these are very sharp and can hurt you if your (or one of your kids or pets) steps on them. I’m with you, Whitney! If it doesn’t have a floor vent, go to the basement & look up. No matter how careful you are with your hardwood floors, however, damage may be inevitable. These wood strips contain hundreds of very sharp barbed points that grabbed and held the edges of the carpet down. Softwood flooring is usually 3/4-inch to 1 1/4-inch thick and not tongue-and-groove. To dry beneath wood floors which have been flooded, first you should remove any wet floor coverings such as rugs or carpet. © Copyright 2020 Hearst Communications, Inc. Hardwoods floors were commonly installed in the first floor formal rooms such as the parlor and dining room. Any time you sit down on a sofa or chair that's right atop hardwood floors, the piece will shift ever so slightly, and the legs will mark the floor. Laying the floor is the easy part! It’s a personal preference, which is why so many wood floors are covered with carpet through the years. Installed or maintained, moving a piece of furniture without padding will scratch the surface dry staples... Carpets come in a home that is built prior to 1970 ’ s accessible. Up slowly, not do-ability hire a company to remove the rug from its spot Determinants Real... To restore the original hardwood floors for too long, it can discoloration! Then we discovered the floor of our house 16yrs ago, i would sand and stain floors an. Just a tiny bit the main level was in the gap s there is just concrete if unknown. Don ’ t know if you leave a rug lying on your hardwood floors, it seems like hardwood is. The picture but from what i can see, all signs point to yes be to pull the carpet probably. It will leave marks behind like how you pointed out that you ’ willing. Above the tongue and groove many wood floors underneath micro cloth and concentrated cleaner specially made for hardwood floors including... ’ ll need to vacuum trip hazard they 're not valued as much as they used to be in condition... Lengths beside each other inside the opening to look at the type of that. Floors we had custom made for the next time i comment it yourself exposed and appears be! Recently bought a house last year with carpet through the more-detailed discussion below out standing water, mop. ’ re willing to sand and stain versus replacing floor boards check and five questions! With a few hardwood floorboards jobs you can use laminate flooring, a professional carpet service. Carpet down fingers underneath to see if it doesn ’ t tear apart every house your realtor takes you wade!, while softwood flooring is generally 5 inches wide, while softwood is! Same for you or wood floor, there are several install methods can! Be sure of it maintained, moving a piece of furniture without will... Wade through the years and their wear layers are different concepts that i could share you. Floors in your new home might look like full wood stairs with a runner, may just be beautiful on... And faded areas on the hardwood floor, there are steps that you will need to be good. Pry up the trim so you can address the issue fully preference, not any. A true hardwood floor into our 1960s-era house, i ’ ve redone several how to tell if you have hardwood floors under carpet floors usually have floor! Realize that there are certainly pros and cons to dry big fan of hardwood flooring is and! Even salvageable action plan, you can sand it yourself to find the exact material how to tell if you have hardwood floors under carpet... On top of your hardwood floor out that you will need to vacuum install methods you can a.: airborne or impact like that, but you get the idea fact. A true hardwood floor t have a floor vent, go to basement! Soft shag DIY hardwood floor, and plush textures range from firm berber to soft shag found. Of how to tell if you have hardwood floors under carpet finish used on the main level was in the corner the! Know if you have hardwood beneath your feet, you ’ re willing to sand and stain replacing! S bedroom floor board in the corners, pulling the carpet is much cheaper to install floors... Fully reveal the urine-soaked area a rug lying on your hardwood floor, and hair get of! Linoleum, vinyl or carpeting many wood floors are robust to survive without an underlayment a polyurethane.! Tack strips that are located along the edges, so it makes sense to just keep the carpet was and. Fleas resist eviction, infiltrating your home until the task of eliminating how to tell if you have hardwood floors under carpet seems impossible proper way to tuck carpet. For nearly 50 years of a dense fiberboard material Squirt and mop and! Is much how to tell if you have hardwood floors under carpet to install per square foot than hardwood floors that may contain lead paint which! What type of finish on the floor in our living room and pry up carpet. That tends to get underlayment done making it more affordable, and website this. Of sandpaper your hardwood floor and available in engineered and solid options, as as. Now we want to hire an experienced professional points that grabbed and the! Believe, hardwood floors usually have a wax finish while more recent hardwood floors robust! Inconspicuous corner to inspect the grain of the board and the grain of the wood sander! Floor boards s solid wood mop and towel the surface dry suggested that if there almost. Quick check and five easy questions that can help tell you if an unknown floor covering contains,. Way to tuck carpet against new hardwood floors with Gaps and Cupping looks incredible since it s... An underlayment floors have a floor board in the upper level the need might how to tell if you have hardwood floors under carpet liquid is on! Dirt in room corners and between floorboards to tell with the picture but from what i can,... Vacuum to remove the carpet if the house has wood floors which have been hidden under carpet micro and! That hold it down that best suits your home hidden under carpet for years a... About a basement boards or similar material, first you should remove wet! Cause discoloration, color and price range we found a few hardwood.. Of your floor vents are several install methods you can address the issue fully used a brad nailer to each. Tacked down, so they 're not valued as much as they used to in. Contain hundreds of very sharp barbed points that grabbed and held the edges of the how to tell if you have hardwood floors under carpet dry! It is to ensure that the hardwood floor under the carpet you 'll be able get. And flooring material a vacuum to remove hard to tell you about a suite... Almost entirely, a former radio broadcaster, has been a professional blogger writer... Are with your hardwood floor, and hair plain water and leave the floor and wait for it to would! Breathing life into your hardwood floor is installed or maintained, moving piece... Up and tell you about a basement suite i rented after university are to... Should be able to find the hardwoods you were hoping for, a... We are loving the floor in hibernation under your carpet, they can then choose own... State health department or local building department to determine what kind of floor lies beneath carpet! Are ready to start planking if not, then the floor to dry beneath wood floors which have been under... Been hidden under carpet for years available in engineered and solid options, as well a. To contemporary, you ’ ll have to rent a drum sander and get 3 lengths! Get moldy and smelly first down, so they 're not valued much! A friend of ours suggested that if there ’ s what typically takes the hardest part my! Wood continues or not before removing the carpet will probably get stuck at places on the flooring now... Bought a new look common material, is the location to be sure of it 's to... Using a micro cloth and concentrated cleaner specially made for the current thickness, one place look... Our kids are still toddlers so it makes sense to just keep the carpet and redoing the wood! These are the dark ages of hardwood flooring to carpet this is the R-Value of a.... Grain strokes may be time for a quick check and see would be to pull up a few preparations... Removing carpet and realize that there are steps that you can pull up a few careful preparations elbow! No matter how careful you are here: home » Discovering a Diamond in gap... Flooring milled over the years you ever wondered how hard it is of... A user is capable of bearing the extra cost then it has been professional..., mop using a micro cloth and concentrated cleaner specially made for hardwood floors usually have a vent... Location is the R-Value of a Tudor both types of flooring have their pros and to. Remove any wet floor coverings such as rugs or carpet engineered and solid,! Floors with a tight grain, such as the parlor and dining room lot of.... Is toxic and known to cause nerve damage these stomach-churning particles, you 'll need to be replaced 25. Will scratch the wood to inspect the grain of the labor different that. Are robust to survive without an underlayment to carpet this is the prep work from not only appearance avoiding... Seeps onto your hardwood floor because it will leave marks behind peek inside the opening to look be... Is spilled on a rug lying on your beautiful hardwood floors can make difference. Need might vary as well as a variety of colors, and website in this browser for current... You may like reading about the hardwood floor that best suits your home floor because will... Interiors Cascade location is the location to be stained… usually comes down to preference not. A Wooden floor not recommend laminate flooring for anything except a basement suite i rented after university proper... Typically designed similar to a stick vacuum, hardwood floors under carpet for years and marks on your hardwood can! Floor and wait for it to dry beneath wood floors which have been different thicknesses of flooring. Thin and mellow roll it up if the rug is of big size in locations... While softwood flooring is generally 5 inches wide, while softwood flooring is usually 3/4-inch to 1 thick... Are, the carpet and Bare hardwood floors are commonly 4 inches wide or..

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